obsidian/🛡️ Debate/Opponents/Anti-War Mindset.md

Debate 1

Proposition

"vegans kill more animals than non-vegans"

Clarified Proposition

"do you mean more animals die as a result of vegans making consumer choices as opposed to omnivores making consumer choices?"

Questions

1. By this, do you mean more animals die as a result of vegans making consumer choices as opposed to omnivores making consumer choices?
   1. answer: yes
2. Is this in absolute or relative terms?
   1. answer: relative
3. What's the evidence that the proposition is true?
   1. Required are empirics showing that more animals die when vegans make vegan consumer choices over omnivorous consumer choices, adjusted/truncated for biofuel and animal ag feed.
   2. Statistics also need to be truncated to account for omnivores making consumer decisions consistent with veganism (such as buying bread).

Evidence

• crop protection and production kills lots of animals
• there's a worldwide decline in insects and birds (via pesticides and habitat change)
  • compatible with veganism causing fewer deaths in the long run
  • human activity leads to insect and bird deaths in animal ag scenarios too
    • pasture for grass-fed
    • crops for grain-fed
  • none of this is interesting because there are no comparative analyses of consumer choices and their subsequent effects on animal death
    • the only information we know from this is that crop ag kills lots of animals
    • insufficient to make the case that more animals die from vegan, rather than omnivore, choices

Questions

• would alternatives to crop ag

Argument

P1) If you kill off animals to extinction, then ecosystems will break down P2) you kill off animals to extinction C) therefore, ecosystems will break down

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